Help Forum

Help requested posted on 14th July 2016:

Pedestrian Hazards in Public Car Parks

I'm a member of the Braunton Parish Council and we have a reasonably large public car park that we are responsible for. The car park is used as a rat run to avoid traffic congestion in the village centre as it has 2 entrances/exits. A number of our councillors are concerned that larger vehicles i.e. 18 tonne goods vehicles using the car park as a cut through presents a higher safety hazard to pedestrians than just passenger vehicles being able to drive through. There is a 5mph speed limit in place in the car park and the only pedestrian incidents that have occurred have been with passenger vehicles. Thanks in advance for your input.

Brad Bunyard

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Response posted on 15th July 2016 by:
Mike Abbott

E: Mike@advancedridercoaching.com
T:

Car Park

Many car parks have height barriers which prevent LGV and vans entering. You may be able to put a barrier down the car park splitting it in two each with only one entrance and exit.


Response posted on 15th July 2016 by:
steve harrison

E: steve.harrison@northlincs.gov.uk
T:

Car Park LGV issue

Morning Brad,

The low cost solutions would be to either provide a height restricting structure, or closing one entrance to prevent a through route.


Response posted on 15th July 2016 by:
Jonathan

E: jonathan.mason@bristol.gov.uk
T:

Height Restriction

You might only need one height restriction at one entrance/exit if you still wanted to allow larger vehicles to park there. But they would then have to enter and exit from the same location.


Response posted on 15th July 2016 by:
Mark Foweraker

E: m.foweraker@cardiff.gov.uk
T:

Car Park LGV issue

I note the comments above but from the glimpses on Street View (clearly the Google Car is over height and so could not go through the car park) there are already 2.4 metre height restrictors.

The complaint seems to be LGVs which range from 1.5 to 3.5 tonne vans and are often of the same size as private cars. In many cases one mans "Goods Vehicle" is another small trader's private vehicle used to go to the shops.

I would examine three options in order of cost.

1. Examine if it is possible to remark the car park to make the through route circuitous, i.e. have the rows at right angles to the main axis of the car park with the "open ends" alternating between north and south ends (taking into account the secondary car park(s)). You may need to monitor and if needed use bollards (rebound type) to create a barrier to stop drivers going through the parking areas.

2. As someone suggested, split the car park into northern and southern sections.

3. Get the necessary legal powers (if it is a private car park - as in not adopted - they maybe you don't need legal powers like a TRO) to be able to install ANPR cameras (you could trial dummy cameras but I suspect they would be found out by locals fairly quickly). As well as making a fine for someone entering on one side and exiting on the other in less than 10 minutes (for instance) you could charge for anyone who stayed longer than the maximum permitted (by meter feeding), but their may be an issue related to the apparent secondary car park.


Response posted on 15th July 2016 by:
Brad Bunyard

E: brad@bunyard.me.uk
T:

Clarification of request

Thanks for the responses so far. I was looking for any evidence that allowing larger vehicles into the car park and or the route being used as a cut through presented any increased hazards to pedestrians. The Car park did have height restrictions on both entrances for a period of time but there were a number of incidents including a Rigid HGV driver being injured by the barrier. There are a large number of tourists that use the car park with loaded roof racks which lead to damage of the barriers / wrecking holidays especially due to cycle damage. There is also a medical centre in the car park which requires deliveries from larger vehicle.


Response posted on 15th July 2016 by:
Saul Jeavons

E: saul.jeavons@transafenetwork.com
T:

Car Park Pedestrian Risk

Brad,

None of the answers so far really address your issue... Your issue seems to be one of perceived risk rather than actual risk. Numbers of incidents are also likely to be too low to gauge any statistical significance on whether passenger vehicles are actually a greater or lesser risk than goods vehicles (or larger camper vans etc). I'd suggest the best way forward is likely to be a formal observation based risk assessment.


Response posted on 15th July 2016 by:
Mark Foweraker

E: m.foweraker@cardiff.gov.uk
T:

Car Park LGV issue

Your additional information helps clarify the matters involved. I note that the height restrictors visible in Street View have gone but that would not have much effect on my comments, both earlier and following.

Firstly I would comment that Car Parks should be more about pedestrians than vehicles as there will inevitably be more pedestrian movements than vehicle ones (at one driver per vehicle parking you get two vehicle movements and two pedestrian ones. If there is a passenger then it is two vehicle to four pedestrian).

I doubt if there will be any greater risk from larger or commercial vehicles per se, but drivers using the car park as a through route will be an increased risk as they are doing so to "save time" and so are unlikely to drive slowly.

My first suggestion was intended to increase the travel distance and so reduce the attractiveness of this as a diversionary route. If you need to allow for 7.5 tonne (or larger vehicles) then you will need someone to do a track run to ensure that it can run through the site to the medical centre.

The second suggestion again would need track runs to ensure that the route to and from the medical centre remains open.

The third one remains an option but whether it is self financing would be another matter.

There is another (radical) option, looking at South Street, is to close that entrance altogether. I note the sign to the Police Station and (informal) Health Centre but I don't know where the station is and the Health Centre can be reached from the other entrance. In due course this closure will show up on any Sat Nav's and so reduce people following their Sat Nav to use silly routes.

Only your local Authority can gauge whether any actin and expense is rational compared to the casualty data. If I was analysing it I would ignore any where the vehicle was turning in or out of a parking space.

I hope you can


Response posted on 18th July 2016 by:
Iain Peat

E: Iain.peat@edinburgh.gov.uk
T:

Car Park Pedestrian Risk

I haven't had a change to look at the site on street view but would it be possible to introduce a one way system using the two entrances. The one way would be set to oppose the flow of vehicles using the car park as a rat run. Obviously it wouldn't be helpful if the rat run is equally split both ways.

If privately owned you could erect the signs cheaply although they would be advisory only.


Response posted on 21st July 2016 by:
tim robinson

E: tim.robinson@calderdale.gov.uk
T:

Car Park rat running Braunton

Even though I am from Yorkshire, I know this car park well and the congestion / traffic issues through Braunton as a result of dragging a caravan down to Croyde Burrows in Croyde every year for the last 14 years.

Height restrictions are not an option as someone has rightly said there are roof racks and bikes to contend with.
You will never stop rat running...even with signage....how do you monitor / enforce it?
The easiest and quickest option is to temporarily bollard off the centre of the car park thus splitting it into a north and south car park arrangement. This may need a couple of spaces so as to allow turning provision on both sides but worth a try. You can then monitor a temporary situation making the case for permanent if it is a success. You well get negative publicity from those who regularly use it.....but standfast!
A more strategic option is to make a case for seasonal changes to traffic signal timings on A361 Exeter Road / B3231 Caen Street arms. I accept this will inevitably result in slightly more delay from A361 Chaloners Rd but you have to accept you are robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Difficult situation for you to be in.....hope you find a solution.
Regards
Tim


Response posted on 25th July 2016 by:
Yvonne Hindle

E: yvonne.hindle@brighton-hove.gcsx.gov.uk
T:

Car Park Pedestrian Risk

Just a note about casualty data. The collision data we receive is Stats 19 data recorded by the police. Collisions that take place in car parks are non-recordable in Stats 19. I presume therefore that your council would not be notified, even if it is a municipal car park.
Regards,
Yvonne


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